Week 49 SUNDAY: Sunday Soup

Scott: Hey everybody. I just wanted to play a little intro for you guys real quick.

Abby: Oh yeah I didn't get to hear that yet.

Scott: Well here's something that you probably wasn't expecting I don't know maybe.

[Recording of Sunday Soup]

Scott: That's probably enough actually she just kind of kept going.

Abby: Is there a dance that goes with that?

Scott: I don't know Parker is there a dance that goes with that?

[Child Speaking]

Scott: All right well welcome everyone I'm just adding a few more people to this chat.

Abby: Do you know every time somebody wants to add to the phone call you have to hang up and then…

Scott: I totally don't and in fact interestingly we thought so for the longest time and like just killed our conversations that way.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: And we don't because I'm adding two more people right now.

Abby: Cool.

Scott: Or three. Okay anyway, did Mary get added? I'm just going to add her real quick. Let me try. But in any case welcome guys it's great to finally talk with you about Sunday Soup our weekly series of chats.

Brice: Totally.

Abby: So you guys how long does the Plausible Artworlds Project last? How many more of these things have you gotten through the year?

Scott: Through the year so yeah we're on Week 49 of 52 right now.

Abby: Whoa.

Scott: Right 52.

Abby: Long stretch.

Scott: Yeah. Basically just the first week of January through the last week of December. Is Kristin not in on the call let me just make sure. I guess not. All right let me try to add her real quick. But anyway yeah so I know a few of you guys have been on some of these past chats but I don't know if everybody has. So for those who haven't welcome to the series of discussions about these structures that people are making that we insist on calling Plausible Artworlds. We're talking with – I want to introduce Abby and Brice but I think there's like half the people on the call or more are already involved in Sunday Soups right.

Brice: Well I'm not sure. George Wietor who's also on the chat he does Grand Rapids Sunday Soup and Michelle does Public Meals in Upstate New York, but if anyone else does a micro granting food meal based project thing they should say hi and say we do.

Arianna: Okay hi this is Arianna. I do.

Brice: Oh yeah and Arianna. Yeah sorry I missed Arianna.

Arianna: No problem.

Brice: Hello.

Arianna: Hello.

Scott: Hello.

Brice: Arianna's out in Portland and does Portland Stock.

Scott: Very cool.

Kristin: Hello I'm Kristin. I participate in them and have in the past.

Abby: You participate in which? You're just here.

Kristin: I participated in the Sunday Soup [inaudible 04:40].

Abby: Oh excellent. Welcome.

Scott: Hello.

Abby: Hello.

Narisa: This is Narisa.

Abby: Hello.

Narisa: Hi. We do Feast in Boston.

Abby: Oh awesome I've met you right. Didn't we meet at that thing? We might at design studio for social intervention?

Narisa: Yes I think so.

Abby: Yeah cool. I'm glad to hear you're doing that.

Narisa: Yeah we're…

Abby: The whole town.

Narisa: Good stuff.

Abby: Yeah. So how do you want to do this Scott should we start introduce a project? I mean basically that's the format that we were thinking me and Brice talked about was that we were just going to talk about origins of the project and what we're kind of [inaudible audio breaking up]. And then ask George to talk but he just got disconnected.

Scott: That's okay I'll re-add him. Yeah that sounds perfect. Yeah talking a little bit about the origins would be great because ultimately I think if it wasn't clear from earlier talks or chats together what we really want out of these discussions I mean besides meeting everybody and having a time to meet up, which is totally awesome in itself – oh shoot hold that thought I'm like half talking and half adding people.

Brice: People are freaking out in the chat.

Scott: On hold. Yeah if someone could type in just like Kristin and Mary. Oh no Mary's back on. Kristin I think is holding herself so I can't – it says held remotely which means the other person's holding so maybe if somebody could sort of relay that to Kristin to.

Yeah so anyway what we really want out of these I think is to talk about the kinds of structures that people are setting up that sometimes are considered projects in themselves or are sort of recognized or self-recognized as art projects and other times are not. But in any case are setup because structure to support the kinds of practice and cultural practices that you want to already be involved in weren't there already or weren't sufficient or at least not in your area or not as specific enough. And in some cases just really weren't there at all. And those are what sociologist call artworlds. They're these structures that people make that allow a kind of creative practice to happen, like literally happen, as a kind of support structure. And also allow a kind of practice to be understood as art. So anyway it may sound kind of calling Sunday Soup art but in a sense it is, at least it's an emerging one or it's an example of one. At least we think so and we kind of like to talk together about, at least a little bit, about what it's about, like kind of why you want to do that in the first place…

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: …and how it's working out and maybe some strategies.

Abby: Cool.

Scott: Yeah. And of course I know you wanted to use this as maybe a kind of planning chat too a little bit.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: So we can totally do all of that.

Abby: Yeah. I mean I think for me I would prefer if we kept, I mean I'm totally comfortable talking about how we started Soup I mean me and Braswell and how everybody sees it, but I would also like to take this opportunity to hear from the other people that are on the chat. Because a lot of times what's really awesome is that we talked about this recently, we've certainly done a lot of thinking about it, we haven't had enough chance to hear from other people that started it where they were seeing like a sort of lack in their local artworld that felt like they wanted to make this thing happen where they were too.

So that for me would be an awesome thing to like really draw out in this public conversation is just sort of different perspectives on organizing, especially because InCUBATE doesn't do it anymore. So and that was kind of – and I think that is part of the conversation that we want to have to because there's reasons why we don't do it anymore and a lot of it has to do with kind of burnout or a sort of where it's like taking some time to think about these processes. And so I guess that's the other sort of part of this conversation because it's important to talk about the sustainability of initiatives like this. Because I think that sustainability we don't talk about it and expand it in an enough way. And it's not just about doing it forever it's about sort of thinking through this and it leads to something else. And what kind of long term way do we see all those things sort of linking up there mainly.

So I guess I'll just start Brice and you can jump in whenever.

Brice: Okay sounds good. Yeah go ahead.

Abby: So InCUBATE started in 2006 and we all met in grad school and we were studying Art Administration and Policy. And initially we came together with the idea that we felt like there wasn't enough conversation happening within an art administration program about nonprofits and how we can sort of open them up and think about creative organizing models. It felt like that we were just sort of being told the tools to be successful administrators like this is how you write a grant, this is how you do a marketing strategy, or whatever.

But at the same time it was pretty obvious that in the funding climate that was out there nonprofits were struggling really hard and that was just sort of like oh yeah this is kind of a little bit of a thankless field because you're never going to make any money and this is just rich people that sort are holding all the purse strings or whatever. At the same time that we were in this program in Chicago which felt like there was so many awesome examples of kind of radical organizing models both in spaces such as Mess Hall or experimental station but also different kinds of collectives like temporary services and/or long history of things like culture and action which was public art project that Mary Jane Jacobs organized.

So we were just then okay how can we take this kind of institutional learning happening and dry out the connections between sort of Chicago artworld that we see being really excited but it maybe it feels alienated from institutions because they don't really know. Like I don't know there's this idea of institutions transposing their model onto art collectives or something. I don't know like we felt like there wasn't any channels that were happening back and forth. I mean we wanted to figure out how to have a kind of active learning process of students and relate to our city and really learn from what had been there before and not just think that whatever we're learning in school was just going to translate into some awesome job. Some abstraction but that we wanted to learn what practice were happening and how we could better facilitate them as creative organizers ourselves.

So that was kind of our initial thought and we started with the idea of money too. Like think through the idea of alternative fundraising models for artists and for people that don't necessarily want to become nonprofits because we felt like the sort of overarching logic of nonprofits are supporting experimental art is that they have to organize specific way with the Board and a certain kind of hierarchy. And they're supposed to have the language of growth. It's like nonprofits like you're not going to get any grants unless you've existed for five years or whatever, all these things. And so we wanted to take the idea of like creating a space, figuring out how to fund it as like a creative problem. So we ran this space for a couple of years and we had residency program, we were curing shelves and all and a bunch of stuff. And people started to come and ask us about where they could get money. Artists started to come and ask us where they could get money for their projects. And that was actually Ben Shaafsma who came up with the idea of doing Sunday Soup which was a community meal that would generate money for creative project grants.

So we were just thinking what are resources at the table? We have the space, we have a kitchen and we have a community of people that seem interested in this question how can we create a platform that will both be functional in the sense that it will generate small amounts of money that we felt like could really be helpful to artists that were doing kind of projects that weren't fitting into traditional funding categories but also sort of have an open space to really think through these problems and talk about them openly and share ideas. And it wasn't just about the competition of the grant but about facilitating a community with a set of questions that could then sort of expand ours. So I don't know Brice if you want to talk about like, I don't know, how it worked or whatever.

Brice: Yeah. So we started doing it and when we began we would do it every single Sunday which was kind of insane. Either one of the four of us or a friend of ours in town maybe an artist a curator or someone doing something interesting would make a big pot of soup. We would hang out in the space for like three hours every Sunday afternoon and just try to let people know that they come by and buy soup for $5 bucks and that it would be contributing to this thing and then at the end of the month we would collect grant proposals, email them out to everyone who would come, they would replay with who they wanted to get the money and then we would sort of write a check and give it out to the wining artist or person who had applied for the grant.

So we did it this way for a year and a half every Sunday making soup. Sometimes with no one coming and sometimes with maybe just a handful of people coming usually brining leftover soup every week and eating it a week ourselves. So after doing this for a year and a half every Sunday we were starting to realize like maybe I think we were all kind of starting to get burnout on being there every Sunday and doing it this way. So we decided to kind of step back and make it a monthly thing instead of a weekly thing. And as soon as we did that we were almost always packing a space. I think people didn't have the excuse of saying "Oh I'll just come next week" anymore. So when we decided…

Abby: Yeah. And we formalized it too…

Brice: Yeah.

Abby: …so there was like talks.

Brice: So instead of it being just like three hours of like come hang out with us and we're stare across the table at each other while you eat soup. It was instead from 12:00 to 1:00 everyone would show up and they'd eat the food and when we changed it, it cost $10 dollars instead $5 because we were also making additional food beyond just the soup. So from 12:00 to 1:00 everyone would eat. We would pass around all the grant proposals that we'd printed out. And then from 1:00 to 2:00 the guest chef who had made the soup would either give a talk about their work or present some project they were working on, lead us in some kind of activity or arrange something else for everyone to do sort of like a group so that people kind of knew what they were getting into, they knew what they could expect when they showed up to Sunday Soup on the one day of the month that we did it.

And it was way more successful having it be kind of, not intensely formal, but at least kind of defined situation that people were walking into instead of this kind of nebulous like weird paying money eat soup with strangers sort of space. So we did it for a year and a half in that way and we stopped doing it last December because we decided to close our space here in Chicago. And we decided to close our space because Abby was going out of town for a Fellowship for Providence. Roman one of our other members is still in the Ukraine he went over there on a full bright and Matthew who's the fourth lives up in Evanston, which is a north suburb of Chicago so he doesn't live super close to the space. So I was going to be the only person kind of like right there. And its running space as I'm sure you all at Basekamp know it's like something that one person can't really do by themselves. And it's even hard to do with like four people so.

Abby: Yeah. That is just to say that like InCUBATE was never like a job for any of us and it was always something kind of about the collaboration between the members of the group. And so it just made sense at a certain point that we just couldn't keep it going at the pace that we were doing it at. But the other thing that over the course of the last year that we've been working on is we've presented it publically in a bunch of places. So Democracy in America, Creative Times Exhibition last year and we did it in Houston and we did it in Buffalo.

And then kind of just tried to start telling people about it and just saying that that this was a model that people could take up. And then last spring just kind of felt like it really exploded as a concept that it's really hard with this text thing and the talking at the same time yes. So luckily a bunch of other people has taken it on as a model and really been pushing it sort of on a national scale. And that was when we started to realize that we wanted a central resource to kind of hold information about all the different soups that were going on. Part of this grew out of a conversation last May at the opening engagement conference in Portland State University they have a social practice MFA Program and a lot of people that are organizing soup were working on that conference, were a part of that conference, and so we officially got together as a big group. We had representation from that do soups or soup related food projects in Baltimore and in Grand Rapids and at the Portland people and Detroit and Philadelphia and New York. And it was just a really exciting time to kind of swap notes about how people are organizing things.

And then we asked George and we were having conversations with George about creating a Web site that would just kind of have all the information, have a place where somebody that was uninitiated to the process could just say "Hey, like where is this soup that's happening in my city? If there isn't one how do I start one?" Just sort of making it more accessible to people. So I don't know is there anything else we should say Brice for now?

Brice: Someone in the chat asked about why was the competition, which is like an interesting question because I think Sunday Soups brings up a lot of and this sort of model having a lot of people pay money and then voting to decide where everyone's money goes in the end brings up a lot of democracy problem questions.

Abby: Yeah.

Brice: And I think it's other people who have done sort of meals like this since we did ours have found better ways to deal with the competitive nature of it all. But in an ideal world I like to think of it not as a competition but like as a lot of people gathering together in one place sharing the resource of money and making a collective decision about where that money goes, which is less competition to me and more like a form of small scale participatory democracy. That being said, there's all sorts of problems that come up when you have this thing too like somebody can bring all their friends and then all their friends vote for them, and of course they're going to win if they live in a place where they can just get more people that like them to come out…

Abby: Yeah.

Brice: …and pay for the grant. Some other ways people who have done some of these fee based micro grants in the past couple of years have dealt with this is by, for example, Baltimore Stew they sort of select themselves three different organizations or projects each time they do a meal that the money will be going to and it's split amongst the three of them. Is it split equally or is it split by default?

Abby: No it's not split equally so the way that they do it is they do a five course meal in between each course. The potential grantees present on their work. And then at the end you get to vote and so that you can either vote to fund one particular project or all three. And so basically nobody leaves empty handed, which I think really works for them because they're doing focused much more on like social justice initiatives or social justice art projects. And the one that I attended there was a domestic violence art therapy place, free after school program, things like that. And so it really kind of, there's an expectation that people are advocating for their particular projects, at the same time that it's creating an environment in which nobody will leave empty handed and they don't really feel like that they're up against the people before. I think that would be the goal.

Scott: Great.

Abby: So yeah. Oh and just really briefly somebody also asked if the InCUBATE's not our job what is our job? I'm the director at a gallery which is a nonprofit. And I think that that is also something that was really important for us about InCUBATE is that it was like a meeting space a way to come together and sort of assess out the problems of our career is going to be like or the choices we're making and the compromising and negotiations and just sort of being open about those questions. And so we never wanted to turn InCUBATE into a job so.

Scott: Also wasn't part of the point of doing this to raise questions about a number of existing systems and structures.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: I mean it's not as if you were trying to propose a panacea right.

Brice: Right.

Abby: Yes totally, totally. So yeah I don't know maybe George do you want to talk about the Web site a little bit?

George: Oh yeah sure I can. Can you hear me all right?

Abby: Yes I can.

George: Yeah okay. Cool. All right well the Web site is – the other point I don't know how useful they're going to be – but the Web site is basically a platform that helps us facilitate everything or almost everything that Abby and Brice just described. It has a whole bunch of features. Like on the front side you can see live stats like the total impact of 70 Street Network as a whole of the amount of meals that are charged, the amount of proposals that have been added to the systems, things like that. There's also the ability for each individual group to self-organize. A group so that no one has to approve them. Within the group you can add tons of information about yourself because too many people are arguing wasn't meant to replace anyone's personal project Web site just a way to facilitate grant reporting and things like that.

So you can have all sorts of information and links even to [inaudible 25:58] if you have something that's there. You can also use it as a way to plan a meal and a meal is sort of the basic unit, everything is sort of connected to the meal. And you can do it in two ways. You can do everything wise through the site, meaning they can accept proposals to the site if they wanted to use that framework or they could have it just the administrators only after the fact. Here you can use the Web site as a replacement for an individual project Web site so we are asking all our Africans to do it through the Web site.

Brice: And one of the reasons that we wanted to build the Web site was not only to like sort of create added ability for everyone's project but to kind of like produce this statistic thing on the front page that shows oh man when you add it all up it shows this is all the money that's given away by people around the world holding these sort of independent organized meals. But we also wanted there to bet he sort of functional component where if people wanted to use to be the place that they collected proposals because it's sort of easier just to point people somewhere and say enter your things into this field and we'll print it out and sort of circulate them.

Have a read to at the meal that it could be a Web site that's helpful to people in that way because I just know from doing it here in Chicago for three years it became a total pain in the neck to sort of like take everyone's weird PDFs and Word files that they would email to this other web address that we had setup and like try to standardize it all for these grant proposals that we circulate around. It was really difficult so if there was a way that would make I easier for the organizers who run these things to do things kind of simpler and quicker that would be a real tangible helpful thing to people. So we wanted it to have both those kinds to the Web site.

George: Yeah totally. And the way that I developed a proposal for was I just went through all the projects that were online and looked at the proposal environment. And all together that added up the side question everything was asking the same thing with a few variations. And so the form up there is not every possible question that went out but everything that everybody has had so far within reason.

Brice: Yes.

George: You can also add that piece to the soup. So it's a way to start a way to start sharing the recipe. You can also could add resources like trash that you were given, guides that you've written, tips and things like that. And those always start within the group and then also share publically in that sort of master resources list and that's the goal for the recipe book as well. The recipes within your group but also in a big overarching cookbook.

Brice: Right. I'm sorry George go ahead. I was just going to say that's sort of like the basic way the Web site works and everyone should go and check it out and see for themselves. But we'd really be interested to hear from people who are doing projects like this and from anyone whose lucky to attend projects like this. We'd like to hear what would be helpful for the Web site to have, what other things might make it a useful tool for people both as organizers and as kind of participants in these sorts of events.

So yeah that would be really helpful to hear some feedback on that as well. And I think we also forgot to mention that like we don't feel very like proprietary at all about the idea of Sunday Soup. We really want anyone anywhere to take up the basic premise which is like invite a bunch of people over and cook food, have them pay money for their proposals. And having anyone anywhere take that basic idea and change it around however they want and call it whatever they want and have it exist independently if they like as well.

So that's an important thing to bring up when talking about all this too. And that is not to sort of like just kind of glom everyone together back into this one project but to really try and help people because we know from running it ourselves that at a point you sort of get burned out on it. So if there's some way that even though we don't do it in Chicago anymore that we could sort of contribute to having people not get burnt out as easily that would be hopefully really helpful so.

Abby: Yeah and the other thing that I think would be awesome to hear from folks that are on the chat too is the idea of like what does it mean. Like the way that we were thinking about the Web site too is creating this place where all these different groups can meet together which I think is an interesting challenge with this particular project because it is so locally based and happens in real time and happens in particular places. I guess this addresses one of the questions that's coming in through the chat it's about where are these things happening and it's not to mean to – the Web site in no way replaces that experience of this happening there.

So I guess this is just sort of to say that what do people think about a kind of national network of these different kinds of granting projects which could be accomplished through them. Is it just important to point out that like these things are happening we can get excited about them or like what is the potential of a site like this too? So that being said, we'd love to hear from people that are…

George: Yeah. Should I cover quickly like what the immediate next steps are?

Abby: Yes.

Brice: Yes that would be great. Thanks George.

Abby: That would be awesome.

George: Okay some of them are really very small, for example like I said, if you press the fees on [inaudible 32:08] site it's just recipes. So some of these projects aren't [inaudible 32:13]. So [breaking up] add more stuff to the front page could be like a way to track new projects across the entire network as they're added. Because right now some of [breaking up] is very, very individual group oriented right now so you have to go, for example, to see all of the Brooklyn projects some kind of mute thing on the front page as well as the sketches from individual projects. As well as the directory of regional opportunities for some [breaking up] and people in your area who guide you to starting your own. Both of those kinds they kind of came up in that very quick and prompt view. She's obviously had a creative time so they're not really [inaudible 33:04], though that is something I'd like to talk about later.

Scott: Yeah George and everyone, hey this is Scott. I just want to ask you real quick. A few things come up in the chat and they're kind of, I know one thing was addressed at least slightly about the location. I think Aaron had a different point to that too which is sounds like maybe there was some other ways that things could be organized as well.

Abby: Oh I see.

Scott: Yeah like my topic or idea or maybe there's other ways that he didn't mention that could be organized.

Abby: Yes.

Scott: I definitely like the way you're setting it up. I think George already knows that's definitely not precluded at all by the way it's structured, which is cool.

George: Oh yeah.

Scott: Yeah. Because we can always be more organized. But I was also curious about like in one thing that I brought up around the same time when you had mentioned the recipes is that I was curious if you had thought about or were interested, or maybe already are doing a site thinking about recipes metaphorically in a sense. Because what you're doing beyond, I mean you're not really doing a cooking show even though food's obviously an important part of what you do clearly; there are other things that go into this.

And so it sounds like I sort of wondering if recipes could be almost like the, I mean not to be antichrist cookbook style, but we've also described the publication of putting together as kind of a sort of recipe for alternative ways of world making. I think in your case in a way you're making literal food but you're also, I don't know, making different kinds of recipes in a sense, different ways of structuring like certain approaches, like different strategies.

George: What the resources section is partially meant to be about adding the sort of How-To's, Best Practices, things of that nature.

Scott: Cool yeah totally.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: It sounds like a recipe for making an event someday.

Abby: Yeah.

George: There's still a lot to be added there but the functionality is there to do it it's just, as with anything, there's a lot of stuff you have to do there.

Abby: Yeah. Yeah I mean I think it's – I don't know it's pretty – I guess I would just say yes I mean that seems to make sense to me. I mean it really is about making it sort of understanding the meal plus raising money plus grant proposals equals a granting project. Like keeping it simple like that as a formula and then however people want to take that on. I don't know like yeah. I think it's just more like a style thing right too because recipes soup and the whole thing it's like you call it resources or How-To instead of recipes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah I don't know if anybody else has these thoughts about it.

Kristin: I'd like to speak a little bit about my experience with Sunday Soup.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: Yeah.

Kristin: I'm Kristin I participated in the Sunday Soup in Grand Rapids multiple times. I think the immediate benefits of having Sunday Soups anywhere is going to be an encouragement to artist and an encouragement to communities to support the arts and to have more faith in cooperatives. And I think it means it's inaptly difficult to keep up steam doing projects of your own or keeping energy for other people in their projects or both by yourself. So it's just a good time to meet and keep that energy going in a city. And I definitely received that from going to Sunday Soup even if I wasn't applying for a grant.

I think of a time I was needing to more just go and participate than receive the funds but now as in a different financial state I definitely do need the funds for doing projects even though I don't live in Grand Rapids anymore. Like I think the site is great also now because as being a person to have moved to a new place where there isn't a Sunday Soup I feel more encouraged to know how to start one going or to start one anywhere I now move, even though I've been to one and end up taking notes. It's nice to have it all in one place and be able to like have conversations going with other people. I think the first Sunday Soups of Grand Rapids were more so directed toward with a community mindset or community focused for the projects that received funding, but that's reflective of the town or of the city, and it's a very community based city which I think is great but it could be a versatile miniature grant too.

And it did start moving more towards individual artist projects kind of branching away from just community projects but kind of being community and the individual art. Sorry I'm not really explaining myself well. The Resograph project that was granted. The Miniature Man I think was a great transition from community based project grants to artist grants as it was an opportunity for artist to keep making. But I think it's I don't know I like how it was versatile and grants are often versatile. But I definitely think that it needs to be more inviting for an individual artists because if you're an artist up on the stage rooting for your project and it's a personal project for you to be able to make what you make and it's going against something that's going to benefit many different people that is a more of community mindset. It's kind of hard to get wind against that because somebody who wants to make you seem selfish and wanting to make your art one. It's a community outcome anyways when you're making your art. So that's some of my 10 cents I guess.

Abby: Yeah I mean I think that's an interesting question too because I like just to think about the Web site something that we wanted and that we hadn't done a very good job on our InCUBATE site is like sort of a catalog of all the different kinds of projects that we funded because it's not just about the form of meal it's about all this other kind of cultural activity that's happening locally that we're trying to support. I mean that's what we're really trying to highlight it's not the soup itself but its function is.

I don't know I feel sort of conflicted about that because I do totally feel really sympathetic to the idea that individual artist projects and individual artist brands are really hard to come by and they're deserving of support. I think also but to me it seems really exciting as well that this kind of community grant then goes towards not necessarily but I guess it does tend to do that about like sort of projects that had forward another way.

Kristin: Yeah.

Abby: But it's like kind of there isn't to me when I look at the kind of funny landscape it feels like the kinds of the projects that are about community engagement that are perhaps more experimental in nature but also they don't have very many that used to get funded too. So I guess it feels like I like the idea of kind of forum for an individual artist practice to be in conversation with a community based practice and that I would hope, and I don't know how to facilitate this more but sort of just have a conversation about how those different projects operate.

Because I know that somebody came to our soup once and they had to critique that it felt like we didn't have an open conversation about who gets the grant it was more just that person presents and then there was a voting process. Whereas in most granting panels there's a long conversation about what deserves that grant for what particular reason, what's come before and all that kind of stuff. So I don't know.

Kristin: There's just a certain energy though that can't be replaced when receiving the grant right after presenting.

Abby: I'm sorry say that again.

Kristin: I think I'm receiving the grant right after experiencing the proposals and then cooperatively whoever exists inside that room that they're voting there's a certain energy inside that room that is encouraging for a community or for cooperatives so. Immediate results are good sometimes too for the next meeting or for people to come back again.

Abby: So Kate is saying on the text that Philly Steak was set in a way that encouraged groups over individual artist practices. Is she on a talking chat? Are you on their Kate?

Scott: Kate I think is on the talking chat.

Kate: Oh hey. It was interesting

Abby: Hi.

Kate: Sorry I'm on Basekamp. Yeah what I should say like it was interesting to [inaudible 43:04] of people that individually state their – and I don't know that this was my desire but this was the whole one and it be very focused on TV and less on art practices. So the whole way it was setup was sort of – I wouldn't say discouraged but  to your studio practice because I wanted the kind of proposals that what were brought out and the language such that it wasn't promoted to people like that.

So it's interesting to me that's what cooking is saying because like in Philly it was sort of like nobody wants that. And I always say one of my favorite things that about this whole network is that I think every other really like the flavor of the city. It begin to say that it's so valuable as a model. But yeah it's interesting. I know that there are other people – like there are others that are much more sort of individual artist brands that like one of [inaudible 44:18] studio types of people and their materials for that. Will that work?

Abby: Yeah. Yes.

Kate: It's all in French it's very confusing.

Abby: It's all in French.

Kate: I'm on a French computer.

Abby: Oh okay.

Scott: Arianna mentioned in the chat earlier that they had a system that they instituted in for one to kind of keep the Tierney of friends from overcoming everything. So maybe Arianna can talk a little bit about what we were talking about the changes they made to the voting and stuff.

Arianna: Okay.

Scott: Is that cool?

Arianna: Can you guys hear me?

Scott: Yep.

Arianna: Okay. So our first round we had it was very obvious that the person who brought the most friends won. And because we had this idea that we really wanted it to be people discussing what mattered to them like as a group. The people who were there for the dinner we started doing this as where we have all the proposals which was up to 10 be voted on in the first round and we narrowed it down to just three for the second round which would make it sort of virtually impossible for one person to bring so many friends that they would be able to staff both rounds of voting and that's helped a lot. Although I think that there's sad things that happened because of that too. But it seems like it worked better than – it's more beneficial than it is sad.

Scott: Thanks. It almost seems like – yeah I mean it's a strange problem to have to deal with because in a sense if people are doing that it's kind of like hey guys you don't want to become draconian and say "Hey you're disqualified for being jerky." We're kind of going against the spirit of bonding or whatever.

Abby: It seems like the way that that model is effective is because each proposal has a constituency and it brings in people so it's always refilling itself [inaudible 47:03] people.

Kate: I wonder if that isn't more of an issue in smaller cities than larger ones. Because like we had that at Minneapolis with the first Minneapolis Soup which is sort of like people really, really [inaudible 47:19] there were business people that stuffed the ballot box by a landslide and they're really not just about it. And then they're like you didn't really follow-up with their projects and there'll like all this stuff. But like in Minneapolis [breaking up] artists that don't necessarily know each other anyway. I don't know. And like I imagine that Portland is similar like turning small really relatively speaking.

Abby: Yeah.

Kate: But I don't know it's like it didn't happen to get [inaudible 48:05] thinking about it the first time that it caused problems. And I think people sort of worked it out that they would just like vote on the project that they last [inaudible 48:17]. I don't know it's kind of interesting.

Abby: Yeah every time we have a dinner it's really obvious who the constituents are for each application. So it always starts out with people being really sure who they're going to vote for and very few people come just to see what's there. Very few people come without having some sense of who they would be voting for.

Scott: You know when we talked, Kate and everybody else who was at that chat like weeks and weeks ago or months ago, when talked with Brooklyn Feast we also talked about Sunday Soup because we all obviously – because they make it really obvious that this is where, maybe it wasn't obvious to everyone sorry whoever wasn't there, but to everyone that was there it was super obvious that it was very clear that this was part of where – this is really where that sort of a process started. But we talked a lot about the particularities of their process.

And like one of the things that really became a sticking spot was like literally how the proposals were. I mean I think, sorry to clarify, how the proposals were actually setup in the first place had a lot to do with – it sort of set the game, the playing field because proposals were in the help situation where they were just like scads of people proposals were selected ahead of time and those are kind of things that were weeded out. And we really talked about how it was then put to a vote democratic style after that. But then we also discussed whether it was even – whether it made sense at all to actually even [inaudible 50:31] it was going to be a selection process at the beginning if you know what I mean. And I was kind of curious if anyone else has dealt with that issue or is that pretty much [inaudible 50:41]?

Teresa: Hey Scott its Teresa. We thought a lot about that and we basically decided as a group to choose these first commissions that came in so that we did not have anything to do with [inaudible 51:00]. We didn't want to think about the conversation that does come up when you select whether or not fair, whether or not people feel like they're given an opportunity and we really want to keep [inaudible 51:15]. So we accept the first…

Kate: [Inaudible 51:24].

Teresa: Can you guys hear?

Scott: Yeah it is a little staticky but I think that's [inaudible 51:32]. We'll just have to deal with it that's just the way it is.

Kate: In Brooklyn when they, and I can speak for them because I know what their process is even though none of them are here tonight, they kind of do it in a – I think they throw out some speakers – but I sort of try and get a good mix of very different kinds of proposals and ones that they feel would be successful project. Like they're not really happy with that. I mean it's not like [inaudible 52:07] but it's also like what do you do when you're getting toward the – I think even like the first Philly Steak we had 20 almost 30 project proposals. And it was just like totally overwhelming you can't deal with that much information.

Scott: Yeah I mean…

Kate: But what do you do in a limit then?

Female: And then the issue comes up are we privileging those who have better access to the internet that basically have you put a call out. I think we did 15 last time when we were talking.

Abby: Yeah. I mean I think that's when I went down to Baltimore that came out that seemed like a big question for them and I actually don't know how they've been doing it lately but it's like they were reaching out to people who specifically wouldn't know or be initiated into like this process. And so some place like a free after school program perhaps wouldn't know that this art collective was giving these big dinners at Red Emma's Bookstore that they could potentially get a couple of hundred dollars. But at the same time yeah it was kind of strange because you could vote for everybody to get money so basically they were curating who was going to have access to that event. So I don't know. It was really her team also liked that it was bringing up a lot of questions for them.

Teresa: This is Teresa again. I'd also like to mention our organizing process was just basically made of all strangers. We'd give like a call to organizers [inaudible 54:08] when we started and [inaudible 54:09] of that yet. And so we actually have a group of individuals that represent groups of people that wouldn't necessarily come together to an event. And when we do our call most people do their outreach I think that it's really helpful that our entire audience in that way [inaudible 54:28].

Kate: We also had two fellow line dancing proposals which were really odd I don't think that's ever happened before.

Abby: Well I guess it'll be good to hear from the other soup projects too about whether or not since we all do have individual web presence and particular ways of organizing and ways of reaching out to our networks like how the Web site, is the Web site a repository so that just people that are not involved with these projects can see all this activity or does it feel like it has some, I don't know, does it feel useful to you kind of centralized in this way? Especially because we all have really different ideas about what this project is about too so.

Brice: Quickly, one way that it's been very useful for Grand Rapids is having all of you out there actually gives our project a little bit more cache with the local community. Like it makes it easier to illustrate that this isn't our crackpot idea and we're asking for your money to fund our projects. I think that explaining it like ourselves as a note in the context of wider network is really, really helped other people to kind of instantly grasp what we were trying to do. So that's often helpful for all these meetings in Grand Rapids.

Michele: This is Michele and I guess we're pretty new to this. I mean our public meals has grown out of TV show, cooking TV show that I used to do in my house. And I got kind of burned out from that and it's a response to living. I mean that was in a response to living in such a rural place that's really not that great of restaurants. And so we started just wanting to do things for each other, cook food and really invite new people into eat with us and try to keep growing community in that way. And so we just done our first local table it was called in the fall where we asked people to bring in food, to donate food and me and my friend Angie and a group of other people who volunteered team up with a menu that was specifically tailored to that.

So we're still really interested in this idea of cooking and this idea of gathering people together but because I'm friends with some people in Portland and I met everybody out there last spring I started thinking about ways that we can kind of change it so that it actually has a bigger impact other than – I mean there is a great impact when you get people together and we do talk about work and we talk about what's going on with kind of local political issues and things like that but I think – so I'm actually I think the Web site is useful. I think this conversation is really useful because I'm in this point where we haven't decided how we have people present their projects or if we invite them or how we vote on them. And I'm aware of some of the issues that other areas have had.

So I think the Web site if it allows for even more communication about how those things are, how things are working out, or how different groups are doing things differently I think that's actually really helpful. So that's what I was looking for when I've been meaning to put our site up there and today I just went on and was looking. And I think that's one of the things that we're really interested in before we jump into having our next meal in January how we're going to handle that.

Scott: Cool. I was wondering if Narisa is still there if she wanted to kind of tell us how Feast in Boston works. Well maybe she's not still there.

Narisa: Hey.

Scott: Hey.

Narisa: Can you hear me guys?

Scott: Yeah I can hear you.

Narisa: Sorry I actually ran out for a few minutes I was supposed to meet someone so I kind of missed a chunk of this and just jumped backed on a minute ago. But if you want to – what did you want me to talk about a little more? Sorry I just…

Scott: Everyone's sort of just been kind of explaining how things how it works in their own specific context and bringing up stuff that works, stuff that we're still trying to figure out how to do better and things like that. So I just figured since you're someone else who is doing a project like this you could give us a little nugget to talk.

Narisa: There's four of us there kind of organizing it and myself and one other graphic designers and the two others are more involved in machine projects around Boston and we got together. And after hearing about the Feast in Brooklyn they went down and visited it, this is really amazing, we've heard about it in other cities, did some research and we had our first one here. And we've had three so far and the last one was definitely successful. We reached out to I think six local farms and they got really into it and they donated all of the food. Local breweries have been working with us and donating beer for the night.

So it's become this really kind of feud oriented event along with like an artist kind of excited. And I think we're trying to kind of figure out like where that line is. Some people come just for the food and some people are there just for the projects. And we want to make sure that it's for both. We the first couple where about 15 people, and the most recent one was a little over 100, and that atmosphere was really exciting; there was a lot of enthusiasm. And I think one of the hardest things for us is finding enough people to – or people have been really responsive to sending in proposals. We just need to find like a best way to more like ask for proposals. We have posters, we go to different like events and talk about feast but we want to make sure that we connect to as many people as possible in Boston. And we don't want to grow it so big that we can't handle it either. But I don't know.

Scott: Right. That's the other tricky thing that if you grow and let everyone know then not all those people that you told are going to get a grant in the end. I think we were talking about this a little bit earlier about how to sort of solicit people who might not be the most internet savvy or people who just haven't heard about this project how to get them kind of to submit something to it. And we were talking about how a student in Baltimore does it which is by selecting three specific like targeting groups and projects each time they do it and having it stay focused on just those three and entering others, like kind of a [inaudible 1:03:02] fee among the types of projects that are represented. But they're also trying to like get outside of just people they  know already. I forget what else I was going to say.

Narisa: Yeah and most of our products have been focusing on something community related even if there are projects and that gives back to the community.

Scott: Right.

Narisa: So they've gone from just like a mural and kind of an art piece to things that are like more science and things that are just – we want to kind of keep it focused on that. I don't know if that is similar for all of you guys or some of it is more personal projects.

Scott: Right. Well when we did it here in Chicago it was sort of defecto for the most part the projects that ended up winning were sort of like community based collective branded sorts of projects and less individual artists projects. Although we did give out grants to individual arts projects. It was really ever like giving school money so that they could buy paint to help them finish their painting or something that they could eventually sell. So I think that the nature of the event sort of skews towards these kinds of art and show practices versus kind of more traditional individual arts that you practice. I mean we talked about a that a little bit earlier to Chris and was kind of bringing up this point as well. So yeah it's interesting [inaudible 1:04:46] about between all those different things but how many proposals have you had each time you've done it?

Narisa: Last time we had six and I think five each prior time. We were also wondering like if we start – does anyone get more proposals and have to turn them away or get down. Like do they find out having too many is a problem?

Scott: We never did in Chicago but it sounded like that has been a problem for Feast in Brooklyn before and I think Kate was saying that the way they dealt with it was just by taking the first 10.

Kate: Yeah we got nearly 30 at the first [inaudible 1:05:35] which was crazy. But yeah we put the first [inaudible 1:05:39] it was still too many proposals. But yea it's really hard because I think in Brooklyn are they collected 32 and it's just way too much information for people to properly – so you don't even know what you're voting for.

Kristin: We send some of the Grand Rapids.

Kate: Yeah we'll send you some artist no worries.

Brice: So if you guys were to imagine that a local, oh I don't know art economy could be completely sustained by Soup Granting events, how many of them would you have to do and how would you do it differently or would you just say that's just so impossible that it's really not the point for us thinking about it part of the point.

Kate: I think we have seven other ones.

[Audio breaking up]

Brice: Yeah totally. It would have to turn it into someone's job you know and that's always the sticky question like when does running one of these projects stop being a volunteer thing that you do for fun because it helps you get the answers to some questions that you've had as maybe a person that works in our administration or is about to or when does it stop being that or when does it start being like a serious obligation like other people rely on in which in fact it would help for it to be a job for you that you got paid to divert time to and energy and everything.

It's like this tricky transition that seems like having sort of people less for us here in Chicago but more for places where like over 100 people show up that's like talking to me to think about cooking through and orchestrating this meal for over 100 people. Because when we did it in Chicago the most people we ever had that could just even literally fit into our spaces like 40 and that kind of just made us crazy. And that many people we just didn't know how to handle it because we weren't the best at like running a restaurant basically. So yeah that's the dilemma I guess. Sorry I don't have an answer.

Scott: That's totally cool yeah. I mean I'm just curious because that's – I mean the soup method or project method [inaudible 1:08:43] proposal itself. I mean it's not really one you would propose at a Sunday Soup but…

Abby: Yeah. I don't know I mean I guess I just always think about it as if Sunday Soup is just like one like marker in the public conversation about what would be a supportive infrastructure for artist. Because I don't really see just as Brice said there's so much energy that goes into making these things happen and everybody bringing all these bringing like people together and reaching out to the correct people and all that. And trying to create I don't know as much diversity in your event as possible and all that kind of stuff.

Like Sunday Soup to me does not seem to be the answer to any of those things but it does seem like a way to create a space to have a kind of active engagement with those questions. So I guess for me what would feel really awesome is not just that that Sunday Soup replicates itself and continues to replicate itself because I think that it seems like really accessible and people are doing really amazing things with it, but also that other projects kind of can grow out of it and be tested out. Different kinds of fundraising initiatives like different kind of ways of getting together and supporting each other. And I guess I don't know, again, like I don't have an answer for that but I really don't think that – like I think it's awesome to get together and cook these meals with people, but then if you get burnt out then hand it over to someone else or just like try a different way of solving the same problem which is kind of a collective problem.

Female: The partnering with local breweries and local farms seems like a good answer to all sorts of things compared to the energy that it takes to put on things. I might be doing that like every other week, or not every other week but every other session of the soup event.

Scott: Great. Good point. And Abby and Brice I don't know if it's the time to talk about that now but just sense you mentioned it again maybe I at least want to bookmark it for a little bit later. I really like to hear at some point about what that transition is like for you guys going from a group that was based in a space to a group that's really not geo located at all. I mean you're somewhere.

Abby: Yeah. But you know I just exist on the internet.

Scott: Right. Exactly you're virtual. But I mean like where you don't have a space anymore. Yeah but you live in different cities and you still operate together, at least for the time being, and potentially in the foreseeable future. And I guess it's an interesting transition that I know a number of people have gone through some successfully and some not successfully.

Brice: Right.

Scott: And we've be sort of quasi going through it ourselves in a way, in different ways. But I'd be interested to hear about that because I know it can relate to many other things that you're involved in but I think it can also relate to the Sunday Soup thing since like you said you guys have kind of stopped doing this.

Abby: Yeah.

Brice: Right. Well one thing is Abby and I both live in Chicago she's just in Milwaukee for the weekend that's confusing.

Scott: Oh yeah it kind of was for a sec. I was like hey are you in Milwaukee.

Abby: Yes. No I don't live in Milwaukee no I just…

Brice: And so since this summer Abby and I have actually been working at the same nonprofit gallery and press it's going to close at the end of the month so none of us will be working there anymore. But on the point of like this thing about Sunday soup not being the answer to everything but maybe like a training ground for people eventually move into our admin jobs or to have other jobs in the control section and bring the kind of values and lessons they've learned with them doing these few base microgramming projects with them as they do. I feel like that was true for us in our jobs at this gallery that we've been working at.

We invented a process of planning this CSA Art Fundraiser that Abby's going to do at another gallery in town now. But I feel like in all the conversations we had running up to planning doing that thing they were all sort of like all the language we were using were like languages that we've learned in doing Sunday Soup and the values that we sort of realized we shared by doing Sunday Soup. So I think even if these meals don't solve like the art echo system problems of the cities in which they're located they can hopefully give the people that run them the tools to help solve those problems that makes them move onto other sort of professional jobs. So that's maybe one way to answer the question of how we work together now that we don't have the space like literally work together as a job.

Scott: Brice have you guys – maybe you guys should add like an arts administration placement section to the Web site.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: Like try to infiltrate all arts administrations with soupers. Yeah sorry. I just talked I accidentally Abby I didn't hear what you said.

Abby: Oh I said we're going to help other people get jobs.

Scott: Yeah, yeah totally.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: I mean like…

Brice: I don't know if we can get people jobs but actually this idea of like having people on the inside all over the place like people who are part of like Free Masons or something. This other thing that we started planning working together at this gallery arts administration conference that is most likely going to be happening next October hopefully gathering like minded people I guess like other people who run these projects together as a conference on like radical arts administration or like unconventional arts administration and finding who all those people are around the US and bringing them together in one place. And then just sort of all leaving and going back again, but all of a sudden having this sort of like professional network of people that is sort of called into existence or sort of recognized by having a kind of conference like this too. So I think that's another way to kind of work together with people in different physical spaces but who also share similar values and principles with us as well.

Abby: Yeah because I think that like I wouldn't have known that there was this like – I feel like a really wide network of artists that are working collectively that are doing socially engaged practices. And all of those things are like if we hadn't started just open the space and just been like what's out there. And Sunday Soup really enabled a kind of larger understanding of it or a picture of like how people are working. And so I don't know in that sense like I think we're really interested in creating resources so that people like us don't have to just ram at the wheel all the time or thinking through the idea of like, okay here's some alternate fundraising projects that have already happened that you can learn from and then make a better model.

Here's another way that somebody else organized the residency program in their home. Here's like the history of artist run basis like in Philadelphia or in Chicago or in Minneapolis. Just so that because it feels like when you have all this energy to start these projects you're just like, yes I'm doing the most important thing in the world, which is a really awesome energy to have and I feel like we had it when we started Soup. But I think also like to think about what those next steps are going to be as we like want to hold the same ethic that we started with but really take stock of like what our professional groups are going to be and be like realistic about like that we need to make money just to support ourselves or just sort of thinking through that process.

And so, yeah as Brice said, we're going to be doing a conference next October it's going to happen through us. It's doing that thing where it's about how do you learn your local history, what are some pragmatic strategies that people are applying to artist run spaces, and/or like unconventional nonprofits and how can we, yeah, like make more visible that network of people and also how can we create mentoring structures so that like generationally there's like a learning process happening so that it's not just these things popup and then they fade away, which is the whole sustainability thing. Like I don't really care I'm really happy that I'm not doing soup anymore I was really happy to do it, and I might do it again in the future, but it's like if there is a kind of continued conversation through all these different passageways or whatever, I don't know, if that feels good.

And I think InCUBATE had this really intense flurry of activity for the first three years that we were doing it because we were all in grad school, and then we're like okay well what's the next step? Like we were very particular about saying this is a nonprofit this is about a learning process for us. And then how do we be realistic about where this is going to go like we didn't want to throw rent parties every month or we couldn't run this residency program where we had somebody new coming into town that we would have to facilitate a project for no money. All that stuff which was so awesome and great just like felt like we needed to take a break from it and be honest about that. And respond to our own particular living situations and needs and career and all that stuff. So yeah so I don't know we're trying to figure it out basically.

Scott: Yeah I think basically 90% of what you just said is something that's like I think as you said an ongoing interest that we share.

Abby: It looks like on the text chat too there's a question about a nationwide soup grid or a nationwide day of getting together or like a soup summit or something. And I guess that seems like a good thing to discuss if anybody is interested in doing that like if that sounds like a good thing to do.

Scott: Like that one soup every so often would be something where you would just every soup instance would contribute the funds that they make on like pick to pay hollow line and everyone would get some kind of, I don't know, unrateable vote.

Abby: Yeah totally I'd be into that.

Brice: Yeah. Like what would be some other things that could be – oh yeah Stephen's like soup should be internationalist. And it kind of is there are soups in Italy and there's one that one worked in New Castle for awhile and there's one in Cev and Ukraine, and there's been a few one off events in other places in Eastern Europe that have been helped out a lot by Roman, one of our members whose been traveling around a lot there. But I'd be kind of curious to hear what some other ideas for like a national or like an international day where everyone sort of hosted a meal. Some other things that we could do like aside from like I'll pool the money from every single place and give it away to one project somewhere and everybody in every place puts on like the same international proposals, or what other stuff could be done to make it more interesting to make it more visible, to make it more like sort of dynamic and democratic and all that sort of stuff? I'd be curious to like brainstorm.

Kate: I was sort of thinking about the like celebrity call in telethon as soon as you started talking about this where you got like towards [inaudible 1:22:28]. I don't think this was a good idea but we're having this national day of [inaudible 1:23:37] and everybody's going to talk to celebrities on like the telethon. But I think it would be really interesting to the way like links artist project nationwide or international even like we're all doing it on one day.

Scott: Yeah you really have to pass it by anyone. I men except just the other soupers to call in international soup day just to sort of say it. Secondly I think the process that we were talking about before that's come up in bits and pieces past chat and this chat be of the utmost importance. Because the way that it's structured right now there's a lot of leeway because each instance they setup their won structure. And there's a lot of wiggle room because the experimentation is firewalled locally. But if it's something that everyone involved is sharing. And somehow in order to experiment with the structure of it you have to do it a number of times. If it was so periodic say once a year or twice a year or something like that I think the meaning that that carries out seems to speak for everyone and it may have wide implications. It looks like I'm stopping.

Brice: And just phrased firewall locally it's very net savvy of you.

Female: I think it would be interesting too if every program or city had one project that's representative and then one project that's selected I feel like there would be the pulling together that would happen that would be taking the web further as far as making us one group.

Scott: Right.

Abby: Or in that sense.

Kate: It'll sort be like the Olympics.

Abby: Yeah. So like each group would nominate a representational body like our project, like a representation project of that group.

Female: Yeah.

Scott: Say like a delegation.

Abby: Yeah maybe we should do it at this topic.

Scott: Guys I think that the Web site if you want to prepare for this George could setup, if you haven't already in a way that's not publically linkable, setup some kind of a forum just to tease out these discussions in a way that can be a little more asynchronous so people can sort of take their time thinking about different points and really build a kind of – I don't know if you actually want to build a consensus to decide how something like that could be setup, but at the very least that talking it out. I forget exactly who was saying it, maybe it was Kristin, but one way or the other it was about how it is dealt with before voting for each project there was like a really talking about together. I think the decision about soup has an overall project.

At the moment like I said before it really at this point are kind of preventive from really happening in an internationalist way because it's a bunch of localized events that are very loosely affiliated. But if in no other instance besides this one periodic international soup mix or whatever or soup-a-bowl in that instance then there is a kind of, not necessarily viable, but like a potential – oh I don't know there's some kind of power structure there where there's some kind of soft organization going on. So I guess my point is ultimately I guess it's whoever's building a Web site. I'm kind of going all over the place here because I'm getting interrupted, but basically my point is if there was some way to have a ongoing conversation about these very specific things for if nothing else for an instance of that kind of just every so often grouping event then I think that would be a really great thing to host on a site.

Brice: Yeah I think so too because it was only released last week or the week before last where Abby and I sat down and like these are remaining sort of like sister projects that we weren't aware of yet. And we haven't talked to everyone that runs a project like this. We don't even know the names of some of the people who do these things. So it would absolutely be super helpful to like all get together and talk about this stuff sometime. And we should throw out the number which are or have been 37 different projects like this happening in the US and in Eastern/Western Europe. So that's like the kind of amazing number that's sprouted up in the past a couple of years of people doing this kind of stuff which is to me one of the most awesome things to be able to like modify in that number of 37. So yeah. What's going on in the chat right now?

Scott: Oh I was just responding to one thing that George had said.

Brice: Oh okay tech question.

Scott: In fact you might remember that I brought up the same point during the We Want More Conference and I think there was some support during the conference but it really didn't kind of work out that way. But I didn't actually want to send it to a tech discussion because, I don't know, I'm only really interested in tech by the way when it serves some other need. And yeah like what Abigail said exactly like stuff gets lost in your Inbox. It's been quite awhile since we've talked with people – yeah George cool. But you know about this particular issue but it was a huge concern for us for the longest time.

Most of you on this chat know that we have posted a number of mailing lists and I've gone over this question again and again yet we used to use forums. And we also had done experimentation specifically parents have done this with us and other people have done this experiments integrating forms and mailing list so every time you have a mailing post it also goes into a correct kind of – oh I don't k now order in a forum so that you have discussions. And that seems to be very helpful because about half the people ask still, which is infinitely weird to me because technology keeps changing, like half o you guys are on your iPhone still prefer email stuff because it's just a tried and true or something that you do or you do it on the go.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: And other people really just hate getting stuff in their Inbox and really just delete it as soon as it's there they don't care and really prefer to spend their time doing the stuff online, whether it's in a forum or in some kind of an IRC chat or whatever. Yeah Greg right exactly. So I mean I think the thing is for people that like email often they have their laptops or whatever on the train or on the plane or wherever they're in some remote area where they're not really at home all the time. And it's helpful for them because they think through their thoughts, they can type it all out – and I'm almost done with this by the way guys – and send it off in this kind of hairdryer or whatever that takes a little while for each person to think out their position.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: Anyway I guess forums are very similar but I guess my point is like people who like forums more are people who have day jobs where they're online all the time.

Abby: Yeah.

Scott: Or who have a lot of free time and they're just constantly connected to a laptop or something. Yeah exactly like it's part of something you always do George. Yeah exactly. But like if they're tied then it sort of takes care of everybody that has a computer anyway not everybody.

Abby: Yeah. I mean yeah I don't know. I understand that obviously there's all these – I'm totally not tech savvy at all nor do I spend a lot of time on the internet – but email seems to work really like seem much more accessible to people. And I don't know yeah. But I like the idea of forums because I feel like I'm saying to myself that check-in notice particular place and read a bunch of thoughts. And it's not yeah it doesn't feel like I would get confused if it was all integrated with my work email, my InCUBATE email and personal stuff and all that kind of thing. So I'm for forums. I'm on the forum team.

Brice: Me too it's on the forum, team forum even though I obsessively label and sort and cleanout my Inbox the less of that stuff the better.

Abby: Yeah cool.

Scott: So guys we have four minutes left until we end this generally. Did anybody have any other – I guess I was just thinking if anybody had any burning things that they wanted to bring out to bookmark for next time or to start a conversation or to add?

Female: How are you guys coming?

Kate: I had one. The one thing that soon came up in Philly is that we [inaudible 1:34:07] by doing an event at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. And Teresa I don't think we actually polled aggressively group this because we were like so we didn't want to get into it necessarily, but it was a very interesting moment of sort of like would that be part of the magnet or are we working with the big [inaudible 1:34:33] or are we doing them. I brought up this whole really interesting tandem forum of sort of like where are we situated in sort of artworld. Yeah and they won't let you in the gallery there. But like it was just a very interesting sort of collection of like how we do we respond to that and what do we want to do and sort of led us back to that question that Abigail was talking a lot about [inaudible 1:35:07] and stuff like that so we immediately have a art institution and kind of wanting to make the public program by the way. It was interesting.

Scott: It depends if you have similarities.

Kate: It killed the idea by the way.

Scott: I was redundant there but it depends on if you have somehow that you think who's sort of an inside – like someone who's on the inside to be an ally. Because I think Brice you guys were just talking about is that part of what you're interested in is this process of instituting within art administrative systems.

Brice: Exactly infiltrate.

Scott: So I wanted to mention this one thing. I typed it in the chat but nobody responded and if you can like hear over the raspberries here. And I'll just read this out so that I don't lose my train of thought and take too long because we have one minute. I mentioned earlier that part of that Plausible Art System that recipe book for ways of world making or whatever, we haven't actually entitled it that but that's how we often refer to it to publish next year and it would be really great if you would – I mean we intend all of these weekly guests to be part of this publication if we didn't already make that obviously, but since the soup network is like so many people it'll be often if you guys would consider talking about this amongst yourselves when you do about contributing a recipe section for that publication.

Abby: Yeah.

Brice: Yeah totally.

Abby: It sounds great to me.

Brice: Yeah. That would be awesome right. I would just wanted to know how we can contribute that thing?

Scott: It sort of makes a lot of sense in least in like overly silly way but it could be really also helpful too because…

Brice: Yeah.

Abby: Yeah for sure.

Brice: Yeah that would be great.

Scott: And Narisa I have no idea seriously it was just a thought that Stephen and I were just sort of chatting about on another channel so I thought I'd bring it up while we're all listening.

Abby: Cool.

Brice: Well thanks for letting us talk about this everyone and thanks to everyone who joined us and kind of shared about their own projects. It was really nice to hear from everyone.

George: Can I say one last thing about the site?

Abby: Yeah.

George: So most people who signup I try to follow-up in person to see if they need any help. I haven't done that recently but I'm way up for helping in any way adding your projects in your proposals and racing to the site. I'm not afraid of data entry if you want to put some of that on me. I'm really excited about seeing all the content so I'm here to help if there's any problems. And I'll stick my emails in the chat.

Abby: Thanks George.

Scott: Awesome George. Who has closing music or should I just put on something.

Brice: Maybe some more raspberries.

Scott: Hey Parker can you play some more raspberries for us. Bye everybody see you next time.

Brice: Bye.