Chat History with basekamp/$799f7512b1450425" title="#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425">At Work / Au Travail (#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425)

Created on 2010-03-27 10:17:34.


BASEKAMP team: 18:05:23
hi all, we'll be getting started here shortly.  We'll call you and a friendly reminder to mute your microphones until you'd like to chime in.
BASEKAMP team: 18:07:44
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:07:49
Aharon: 18:08:13
hi scottrigby
BASEKAMP team: 18:10:14
teching the audio, we'll begin shortly!  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley
mabel: 18:10:35
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:10:52
Dominic, we finaly have our AV tech finishing the setup >smiley
Dominic Zlatanov: 18:11:07
BASEKAMP team: 18:11:10
ha ha "AV tech"!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:11:23
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:17:50
ok guys, we're ready to start
Aharon: 18:18:20
atrowbri: 18:18:56
skype crashed, recall pls?
BASEKAMP team: 18:19:05
on it
atrowbri: 18:19:08
Aharon: 18:19:31
we can post links (to images vids etc..)
Aharon: 18:20:11
he mi8 not be awar of your new time!!
BASEKAMP team: 18:20:53
atrowbri who am I calling? you? or UTC?
atrowbri: 18:21:09
atrowbri: 18:21:13
utc crashed
Aharon: 18:21:38
for me bob da bilda is obama.. well.. now a nu one.. smiley
BASEKAMP team: 18:24:47
yes thank you all.
BASEKAMP team: 18:26:43
BASEKAMP team: 18:26:45
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:30
cutting in & out slightly
BASEKAMP team: 18:29:51
it's crystal clear in the is the audio for everyone else?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:59
btter now
mabel: 18:30:09
very good here!
BASEKAMP team: 18:32:39
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:33:32
trying 2nd www connection
Aharon: 18:33:42
do u really think your car is not powered by ppl now..? smiley
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:20
well, www is funny tonight
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:35
we have a weak signal strangely
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:38
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:45
thnak you Greg
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 18:34:54
is there some sort of archive of these examples?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:35:02
Aharon: 18:35:20
BASEKAMP team: 18:35:20
Ho Ho Ho Ho!
Aharon: 18:35:52
BASEKAMP team: 18:36:11
Dominic Zlatanov: 18:36:50
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 18:37:28
thank you
BASEKAMP team: 18:37:29
yep looks great!
stephen wright: 18:41:03
Hey, can I hook up?
BASEKAMP team: 18:41:14
on it Stephen
stephen wright: 18:43:08
Hey Dominic!
BASEKAMP team: 18:43:14
BASEKAMP team: 18:43:18
by X
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:30
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:38
bottom of page
stephen wright: 18:44:18
Shows the works by Chuck Close by the edge of the highway!
BASEKAMP team: 18:44:35
try this link: (assuming this is the same artist you were referring to Scott)
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:36
Stephen, hello there!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:48
you are on the call
stephen wright: 18:44:59
Yup -- in a hotel lobby!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:45:08
which city are you in?
stephen wright: 18:46:06
Hey Dominic, you made a movie about At Work. A really good one. Is any of that uploaded to the web -- on YouTube or something?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:47:48
by the way, i didn't mention this at the beginning as i normally do -- but -- please feel free to chime in if you have any questions or comments about at work
BASEKAMP team: 18:50:39
yes please! great!
stephen wright: 18:50:48
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:09
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:54
is there a link for that project btw?
stephen wright: 18:52:24
maybe under the name of Saint Thomas the Imposter
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:52:33
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:03
smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley smiley smiley  smiley
stephen wright: 18:53:03
we'll have to ask him for sure. He's the guy in the policeman's outfit on the website and the PAW mail-out.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:56
google search turns up a lot of generic stuff stephen & BOB
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:54:04
BASEKAMP team: 18:55:23
stephen wright: 18:56:04
slacking at work -- and putting a fancy name on it!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 18:56:20
<ss type="laugh">smiley</ss>
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:56:30
yeah, that's a rad decription
BASEKAMP team: 18:56:42
I like to call them J.O.B. Grants
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 18:57:03
there's also something slightly exotic in doing crappy jobs don't you think?
BASEKAMP team: 18:58:14
indeed Stef...the go to question for movie stars..."What was the worst job you had while you were a struggling actor?"
Aharon: 19:00:12
so.. is it not that in a sense, doing at-work ativities encouraged by a given corporation - will actually be profitable for the man..?
stephen wright: 19:00:17
There is actually no reason why at-working only has to do with low-paid jobs.
Aharon: 19:00:59
i can c this being really encouraged by the capital..
Aharon: 19:01:26
stephen wright: 19:02:30
Spend your free time at work! That's neomanagement strategy for sure.
Aharon: 19:03:34
from this pov - its a really concervative practice..  that irony is possibly interesting in itself..
stephen wright: 19:04:28
At workers dont spend free time at work -- they free up work time while they have to be at work anyway
Aharon: 19:04:52
s it not actually about making work in this society more palatable..?
atrowbri: 19:05:18
Could it take place at 12hr a day Apple iPod factories in China?
Aharon: 19:06:03
yup it can.. i can imagine that anyway.. adam..
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:06:09
You make a video with the ipod in secret,
Aharon: 19:06:57
u place secret image pieces.. one in each..
BASEKAMP team: 19:07:13
also labor itself can be bought and sold
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:23
smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:42
hi randall
atrowbri: 19:08:09
hey randall
Randall Szott: 19:08:16
hey scott
Jessica Westbrook: 19:09:49
hellllo. i am late with child.
atrowbri: 19:10:03
Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:12
wait. no
Aharon: 19:10:14
well.. that assumes the surplace value analisys is correct.. i think it is more correct to say that marx himself was question ing the validity of that - and other - theories.. for example, he had another pov based on production dictated by mode of exchange..
Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:16
scratch that
stephen wright: 19:10:35
Surplus value does exist!
stephen wright: 19:10:44
Otherwise how would accumulation take place!
stephen wright: 19:11:04
How would rich people get richer?
Aharon: 19:11:08
it does, ofcourse. question is how it plays in the grand sceme of things
Randall Szott: 19:11:34
well surplus value exists and it doesn't
BASEKAMP team: 19:11:47
Aharon: 19:11:53
ofcourse we do not have money trickling down but up
Randall Szott: 19:11:57
it exists *within* the confines of the economic frame
Randall Szott: 19:12:27
but whether it exists in any ontological sense is dubious
BASEKAMP team: 19:12:31
smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley
stephen wright: 19:13:06
it exists within the economy where at-workers are working -- and it is what they want to repossess rather than seeing it exporipriated by the employer
BASEKAMP team: 19:13:07
Randall Szott: 19:13:35
but they are chasing phantoms
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:14:00
independent contractor
BASEKAMP team: 19:14:05
no pun intended
stephen wright: 19:14:33
Randall, hi! What do you mean about "chasing fantoms"?
atrowbri: 19:14:41
There is a stuent sleeping through this discussion
atrowbri: 19:14:44
She gets an A
stephen wright: 19:14:50
atrowbri: 19:15:44
Another student reports she was working on a class project @ work
atrowbri: 19:15:46
Randall Szott: 19:16:51
stephen - i'm just rehashing his claim that workers are not being exploited by accumulating their surplus value, but by being inculcated in the frame of vlaue itself
stephen wright: 19:17:26
It seems to me that it is in both those realms
Randall Szott: 19:17:26
it is the tryanny of *value* that is the problem not finding the appropriate baance of surplus/exchange value
Randall Szott: 19:17:58
but I'm a Baudrillard zombie, so I'm useless
BASEKAMP team: 19:18:38
Randall aren't we all zombies according to Baudrillard?
stephen wright: 19:18:40
OK. But At-working is not really about stymying the bosses ability to extract surplus value
stephen wright: 19:19:20
It is only secondarily about that -- as a consequence of using the space / time of the work environment as a place of artistic production
Randall Szott: 19:19:24
yeah stephen i joined late so missed the initial qualifier
stephen wright: 19:21:19
You know, when i translated the art critical text using the strange protocol I mentioned (inverting all the values, translating words by their opposites), everyone was happy. THe journal was happy to pay -- because they never noticed the ploy. They just thought my English prose was acceptable.
Aharon: 19:23:57
sing the blues in the cotton fields?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:24:21
knit turtleneck sweaters in the cotton fields
Aharon: 19:24:49
is that the slave pic u have..?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:10
did you just pull a "don't joke about slavery" move?
stephen wright: 19:25:22
But we don't work in cotton fields. Probably cotton workers need trade unionization.
Aharon: 19:25:29
the other way round smiley
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:47
fair enough
stephen wright: 19:25:54
We work as "cognitarians" -- immaterial laborers in post fordism
Randall Szott: 19:26:05
but this is not just a tactic right? i mean slack is built into most office environments
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:26:12
the idea economy
stephen wright: 19:26:29
slack is only built into high end, immaterial labour
Randall Szott: 19:26:33
people write birthday party invites, make appointments, play in their fantasy foot ball leagues
stephen wright: 19:26:47
maybe software design, advertising
Aharon: 19:27:03
well.. in a sense you put it so well Stephen, that we need to produce - so we do work/job
Randall Szott: 19:27:07
working as a temp i saw oodles and oodles of ordinary people making work time their own
stephen wright: 19:27:17
Aharon: 19:27:20
..or did u use re-produce..?
Aharon: 19:28:11
which is exactly where we go back to the cotton field with the blues and all that.. be it a metaphorical - litteraly metaphorical - field..
Randall Szott: 19:28:29
students doing homework, people doing crosswords, surfing the web, looking at restaurant menus, texting, chatting...all on "company time"
Aharon: 19:28:38
hi magda
atrowbri: 19:28:50
the recent SEC guy fired for looking @ porn...
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:28:51
Greg, can you add Magda to the audio chat?
stephen wright: 19:28:59
But those poeple are "killing time"
stephen wright: 19:29:08
At work is not about killing time.
Randall Szott: 19:29:09
atrowbri: 19:29:10
art is not killing time?
Randall Szott: 19:29:23
exactly adam
stephen wright: 19:29:31
well, only if it is self consciously about killing time
magdalenatc: 19:29:35
hello. great thank. i am in.
Randall Szott: 19:29:35
what makes art better than fantasy football?
Aharon: 19:29:40
no.. they keep trying to make sure time does not kill them]
atrowbri: 19:29:44
More than 24 employees and contractors at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission have been investigated for porn-surfing at work in the past two years, according to published reports.
atrowbri: 19:29:57
Are they not using work time to "produce desire"
atrowbri: 19:29:58
stephen wright: 19:30:46
That might be stretching the point if they just gazed at some skin-observing
Aharon: 19:30:57
and therefore its subsistance kind of practice.. an expression of subsistance, not subversion of subsistancy.. just a feel of..
stephen wright: 19:31:05
If they made porn, then YES
stephen wright: 19:31:18
I think we should be making more on-worksite porn
stephen wright: 19:32:14
Yes, that's probably true. They tend to be fairly one offish.
Randall Szott: 19:32:31
a mom typing up her Christmas family newsletter at work is just as interesting to me as some post-grad using video software to edit a project
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:32:35
I'm wondering if the sleeping student is not upper class, so will never need a dayjob to "au travail"...
Aharon: 19:32:40
i wonder about your position, bob.. are you a kind of a curator? making your curation via films..?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:33:01
stephen, maybe you can help translate too?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:23
who was that?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:27
atrowbri: 19:34:56
if the post-grad's video shows and becomes part of a gallery exhibition leading to a teaching job, you could argue the value is merely transfered. How many of these slack-art-workers are transfering excess work value into artworld value possibly leading to either credibility or better art-related positions?
stephen wright: 19:34:57
slackers tend to be -- though are not always -- from middle class society.
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:35:15
Anibal Lopez, that's the name of the truck driver
atrowbri: 19:35:27
trying to unmute
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:35:58
thanks Stef  smiley
BASEKAMP team: 19:36:19
street cred = use value?
stephen wright: 19:36:22
Excellent question!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:36:32
(couldn't remember it either, had to look it up)
Randall Szott: 19:37:28
can't we side step this question? or maybe reframe it...why talk about value? why not talk about meaning or maybe the conversion of value into meaning.
BASEKAMP team: 19:38:59
do value and meaning have to be mutually exclusive Randall or is this getting too semantic?
Randall Szott: 19:39:25
well economic value has no necessary relation to meaning
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:39:41
this debate came up earlier, and i wasn't sure how 'valuable' it is to be honest... whether or not 'value' can exist outside of capital
stephen wright: 19:40:12
Let's bear in mind that one of the important characteristics of At Work is that it really exists -- it has some 400 self-acknowledged members worldwide.
BASEKAMP team: 19:40:34
despite those who define themselves based on accumulated property or how "valuable" they are not that we should be focusing on this at all
BASEKAMP team: 19:41:27
or knowledge production (re: crosswords)
Randall Szott: 19:41:36
but passing time is how you would charaterize it....
Randall Szott: 19:41:52
because you don't find it meaninful apparently
Randall Szott: 19:42:00
or not meaningful in the same way art is
Randall Szott: 19:42:35
but some people find meaning in less "elevated" arenas
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:39
randall yes.. dominic earlier said that this approach would probably not be necessary at a job one finds fulfiling
BASEKAMP team: 19:42:45
Is Au Travail a kind of art therapy?
stephen wright: 19:42:45
I see your point, Randall, but the kind of self-understanding that goes with art doing changes everything for me.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:48
regardless of what it is
Randall Szott: 19:43:14
stephen wright: 19:43:26
as art
Randall Szott: 19:43:27
or navel gazing....sometimes it's hard to tell
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:46
as long as he was giving blow jobs!
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:57
oops did I just write that?
Aharon: 19:44:11
are you looking for meaning, randall?
Aharon: 19:44:18
lol@art q..
Randall Szott: 19:44:30
no i dont care at all what art is
stephen wright: 19:44:39
neither do I
Randall Szott: 19:44:49
i am interesed in human meaning making and creativity in whatever form it takes
stephen wright: 19:44:50
it is whatever it understands itself to be
Aharon: 19:45:00
is art a taboo term/word?
Randall Szott: 19:45:05
art is highly privileged in this regard
stephen wright: 19:45:17
uniquely so
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:23
art is what makes life more interesting than art
stephen wright: 19:45:27
BASEKAMP team: 19:45:29
well...not caring about what art is is caring
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:29
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:44
not about form then, about concept/process/space of creation?
Aharon: 19:46:51
what doesnt qualify as at-work..?
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:47:40
by the way, it could have been santiago sierra and not lopez
Randall Szott: 19:47:53

 not caring is caring - whooo boy
stephen wright: 19:47:54
well, if you work at an art gallery and just do what you're told, that doen't qualify
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:48:08
<ss type="giggle">smileychuckle)</ss>
Aharon: 19:48:40
y not? it mi8 be exactly what u've always dreamed of!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:48:54
sorry, i think it was santiago sierra.
stephen wright: 19:49:02
well if it's a dream job, so much the better
Aharon: 19:49:20
it mi8 be a dream activity
Aharon: 19:49:46
point is that from that pov you do indeed place a very large set of values..
BASEKAMP team: 19:50:02
whooo boy?
Randall Szott: 19:50:11
yes exactly - creative practice in *whatever* form
Randall Szott: 19:50:39
from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.
stephen wright: 19:50:50
I would say that At Work is more interested in "decreative practice" in whatever form
Randall Szott: 19:50:51
not just making videos, novels, etc.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:03
stef - thanks smiley
stephen wright: 19:51:03
certainly not making videos necessarily
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:30
someone here is teaching a class on lock-picking
Aharon: 19:51:32
has anyone seen mikmaks..? (maybe wrong spelling.. your movie ref..)
Aharon: 19:53:11
Randall Szott: 19:53:46
art as esperanto!
Randall Szott: 19:53:51
both equally useless
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:54:43
i've heard claims that critical theory was a kind of universal language - but I doubt that really
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:55:01
Dominique, do you think "at work" is a prevalent working class artist activity?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:13
buzzwords that help people to think they're talking the same language
Randall Szott: 19:55:38
did i miss a question?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:47
stephen is thinking smiley
stephen wright: 19:55:49
didn't ask it yet -- sorry
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:55:49
(my kids are asleep so i can't say it out loud)
BASEKAMP team: 19:55:51
thanks for the music
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:55:58
prevalent working class activity?
Randall Szott: 19:56:07
oh ok im not objecting per se
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:15
i'm totally into it actually
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:56:27
yes, i mean, upper class artists wouldn't really care about this no?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:43
smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley
Randall Szott: 19:56:53
just wondering why we seem hesitant to grant the activites i mentioned as being relevant
Randall Szott: 19:57:06
relevant is not the right word...
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:25
randall, - really? i might have missed the activities - can you repeat?
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:27
Randall Szott: 19:57:35
but we seem intent on making art/activist purposes more important thna less "heroic" ones
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:43
Scott...from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:45
"not just making videos, novels, etc."?
stephen wright: 19:58:00
Not At Work -- the members activities are pretty unheroic
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:58:07
ah--- ok, i didn't get the impression anyone was hesitant that 's all -- ok
Randall Szott: 19:58:12
a form of heroism seems to be smuggled in somewhere
Randall Szott: 19:58:29
oh so sorry guys
Randall Szott: 19:58:40
my ride has arrived i have to run
stephen wright: 19:58:49
well, ripping off the man with the clock is slightly heroic
stephen wright: 19:59:02
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 19:59:03
yes, we can all hear you
Randall Szott: 19:59:11
but crosswords rip off the man as much as art
Randall Szott: 19:59:14
to me
Randall Szott: 19:59:28
but i really have to go sorry
stephen wright: 19:59:29
well then it,s heroic
Dominic Zlatanov: 20:00:00
ciao Randall
Aharon: 20:00:28
BASEKAMP team: 20:01:11
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 20:01:12
it's only 1 am here, we're cool.
magdalenatc: 20:01:34
i would like to, as i joined late and still trying to follow ... the silence of thougts (my silent thoughts in particular <ss type="smile">smiley</ss>
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 20:02:10
he was "at travail"!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:38
Eric that's fantastic
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:53
or.. i mean -- i like that you're doing this
stephen wright: 20:09:46
Great allegory!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 20:10:04
Eric would you rather become a famous artist or a famous actor?
BASEKAMP team: 20:11:21
Thanks everyone!
magdalenatc: 20:11:32
thank you all.
stephen wright: 20:12:14">
magdalenatc: 20:12:15
that's very kind
magdalenatc: 20:12:16
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 20:12:41
Thank you, that was fab.
Aharon: 20:12:42
d900@ where??
Aharon: 20:12:48
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini"> 20:12:49
Dominic Zlatanov: 20:12:54">
Aharon: 20:12:54
ta stephen
stephen wright: 20:13:06
See / hear you next week!
stephen wright: 20:13:12
night night
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:13:28
nighty night!