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Chat History with basekamp/$799f7512b1450425" title="#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425">At Work / Au Travail (#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425)

Created on 2010-03-27 10:17:34.

BASEKAMP team: 18:05:23: hi all, we'll be getting started here shortly. We'll call you and a friendly reminder to mute your microphones until you'd like to chime in.
BASEKAMP team: 18:07:44: scott......
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:07:49: thanks
Aharon: 18:08:13: hi scottrigby
BASEKAMP team: 18:10:14: teching the audio, we'll begin shortly!
mabel: 18:10:35: ok
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:10:52: Dominic, we finaly have our AV tech finishing the setup >
Dominic Zlatanov: 18:11:07: ok
BASEKAMP team: 18:11:10: ha ha "AV tech"!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:11:23: w00t
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:17:50: ok guys, we're ready to start
Aharon: 18:18:20: cool
atrowbri: 18:18:56: skype crashed, recall pls?
BASEKAMP team: 18:19:05: on it
atrowbri: 18:19:08: thx
Aharon: 18:19:31: we can post links (to images vids etc..)
Aharon: 18:20:11: he mi8 not be awar of your new time!!
BASEKAMP team: 18:20:53: atrowbri who am I calling? you? or UTC?
atrowbri: 18:21:09: me
atrowbri: 18:21:13: utc crashed
Aharon: 18:21:38: for me bob da bilda is obama.. well.. now a nu one..
BASEKAMP team: 18:24:47: yes thank you all.
BASEKAMP team: 18:26:43: 300-400!
BASEKAMP team: 18:26:45: Wow!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:30: cutting in & out slightly
BASEKAMP team: 18:29:51: it's crystal clear in the burbs...how is the audio for everyone else?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:59: btter now
mabel: 18:30:09: very good here!
BASEKAMP team: 18:32:39: yikes!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:33:32: trying 2nd www connection
Aharon: 18:33:42: do u really think your car is not powered by ppl now..?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:20: well, www is funny tonight
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:35: we have a weak signal strangely
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:38: back!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:45: thnak you Greg
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:34:54: is there some sort of archive of these examples?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:35:02: Yes
Aharon: 18:35:20: lol
BASEKAMP team: 18:35:20: Ho Ho Ho Ho!
Aharon: 18:35:52: nice!
BASEKAMP team: 18:36:11: sure.
Dominic Zlatanov: 18:36:50: http://www.atwork.enter1646.com/
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:37:28: thank you
BASEKAMP team: 18:37:29: yep looks great!
stephen wright: 18:41:03: Hey, can I hook up?
BASEKAMP team: 18:41:14: on it Stephen
stephen wright: 18:43:08: Hey Dominic!
BASEKAMP team: 18:43:14: Truck
BASEKAMP team: 18:43:18: by X
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:30: http://www.autravailatwork.50megs.com/photo.html
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:38: bottom of page
stephen wright: 18:44:18: Shows the works by Chuck Close by the edge of the highway!
BASEKAMP team: 18:44:35: try this link: (assuming this is the same artist you were referring to Scott) http://www.atwork.enter1646.com/trucker.pdf
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:36: Stephen, hello there!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:48: you are on the call
stephen wright: 18:44:59: Yup -- in a hotel lobby!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:45:08: which city are you in?
stephen wright: 18:46:06: Hey Dominic, you made a movie about At Work. A really good one. Is any of that uploaded to the web -- on YouTube or something?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:47:48: by the way, i didn't mention this at the beginning as i normally do -- but -- please feel free to chime in if you have any questions or comments about at work
BASEKAMP team: 18:50:39: yes please! great!
stephen wright: 18:50:48: Definitely!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:09: great
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:54: is there a link for that project btw?
stephen wright: 18:52:24: maybe under the name of Saint Thomas the Imposter
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:52:33: ok,,,
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:03
stephen wright: 18:53:03: we'll have to ask him for sure. He's the guy in the policeman's outfit on the website and the PAW mail-out.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:56: google search turns up a lot of generic stuff stephen & BOB
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:54:04: oh
BASEKAMP team: 18:55:23: yep
stephen wright: 18:56:04: slacking at work -- and putting a fancy name on it!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:56:20: <ss type="laugh"></ss>
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:56:30: yeah, that's a rad decription
BASEKAMP team: 18:56:42: I like to call them J.O.B. Grants
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:57:03: there's also something slightly exotic in doing crappy jobs don't you think?
BASEKAMP team: 18:58:14: indeed Stef...the go to question for movie stars..."What was the worst job you had while you were a struggling actor?"
Aharon: 19:00:12: so.. is it not that in a sense, doing at-work ativities encouraged by a given corporation - will actually be profitable for the man..?
stephen wright: 19:00:17: There is actually no reason why at-working only has to do with low-paid jobs.
Aharon: 19:00:59: i can c this being really encouraged by the capital..
Aharon: 19:01:26: sure
stephen wright: 19:02:30: Spend your free time at work! That's neomanagement strategy for sure.
Aharon: 19:03:34: from this pov - its a really concervative practice.. that irony is possibly interesting in itself..
stephen wright: 19:04:28: At workers dont spend free time at work -- they free up work time while they have to be at work anyway
Aharon: 19:04:52: s it not actually about making work in this society more palatable..?
atrowbri: 19:05:18: Could it take place at 12hr a day Apple iPod factories in China?
Aharon: 19:06:03: yup it can.. i can imagine that anyway.. adam..
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:06:09: You make a video with the ipod in secret,
Aharon: 19:06:57: u place secret image pieces.. one in each..
BASEKAMP team: 19:07:13: also labor itself can be bought and sold
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:23
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:42: hi randall
atrowbri: 19:08:09: hey randall
Randall Szott: 19:08:16: hey scott
Jessica Westbrook: 19:09:49: hellllo. i am late with child.
atrowbri: 19:10:03: nononononon
Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:12: wait. no
Aharon: 19:10:14: well.. that assumes the surplace value analisys is correct.. i think it is more correct to say that marx himself was question ing the validity of that - and other - theories.. for example, he had another pov based on production dictated by mode of exchange..
Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:16: scratch that
stephen wright: 19:10:35: Surplus value does exist!
stephen wright: 19:10:44: Otherwise how would accumulation take place!
stephen wright: 19:11:04: How would rich people get richer?
Aharon: 19:11:08: it does, ofcourse. question is how it plays in the grand sceme of things
Randall Szott: 19:11:34: well surplus value exists and it doesn't
BASEKAMP team: 19:11:47: "dancers"
Aharon: 19:11:53: ofcourse we do not have money trickling down but up
Randall Szott: 19:11:57: it exists *within* the confines of the economic frame
Randall Szott: 19:12:27: but whether it exists in any ontological sense is dubious
BASEKAMP team: 19:12:31
stephen wright: 19:13:06: it exists within the economy where at-workers are working -- and it is what they want to repossess rather than seeing it exporipriated by the employer
BASEKAMP team: 19:13:07: W.O.W.
Randall Szott: 19:13:35: but they are chasing phantoms
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:14:00: independent contractor
BASEKAMP team: 19:14:05: no pun intended
stephen wright: 19:14:33: Randall, hi! What do you mean about "chasing fantoms"?
atrowbri: 19:14:41: There is a stuent sleeping through this discussion
atrowbri: 19:14:44: She gets an A
stephen wright: 19:14:50: A+
atrowbri: 19:15:44: Another student reports she was working on a class project @ work
atrowbri: 19:15:46: A
Randall Szott: 19:16:51: stephen - i'm just rehashing Baudrillard...in his claim that workers are not being exploited by accumulating their surplus value, but by being inculcated in the frame of vlaue itself
stephen wright: 19:17:26: It seems to me that it is in both those realms
Randall Szott: 19:17:26: it is the tryanny of *value* that is the problem not finding the appropriate baance of surplus/exchange value
Randall Szott: 19:17:58: but I'm a Baudrillard zombie, so I'm useless
BASEKAMP team: 19:18:38: Randall aren't we all zombies according to Baudrillard?
stephen wright: 19:18:40: OK. But At-working is not really about stymying the bosses ability to extract surplus value
stephen wright: 19:19:20: It is only secondarily about that -- as a consequence of using the space / time of the work environment as a place of artistic production
Randall Szott: 19:19:24: yeah stephen i joined late so missed the initial qualifier
stephen wright: 19:21:19: You know, when i translated the art critical text using the strange protocol I mentioned (inverting all the values, translating words by their opposites), everyone was happy. THe journal was happy to pay -- because they never noticed the ploy. They just thought my English prose was acceptable.
Aharon: 19:23:57: sing the blues in the cotton fields?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:24:21: knit turtleneck sweaters in the cotton fields
Aharon: 19:24:49: is that the slave pic u have..?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:10: did you just pull a "don't joke about slavery" move?
stephen wright: 19:25:22: But we don't work in cotton fields. Probably cotton workers need trade unionization.
Aharon: 19:25:29: the other way round
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:47: fair enough
stephen wright: 19:25:54: We work as "cognitarians" -- immaterial laborers in post fordism
Randall Szott: 19:26:05: but this is not just a tactic right? i mean slack is built into most office environments
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:26:12: the idea economy
stephen wright: 19:26:29: slack is only built into high end, immaterial labour
Randall Szott: 19:26:33: people write birthday party invites, make appointments, play in their fantasy foot ball leagues
stephen wright: 19:26:47: maybe software design, advertising
Aharon: 19:27:03: well.. in a sense you put it so well Stephen, that we need to produce - so we do work/job
Randall Szott: 19:27:07: working as a temp i saw oodles and oodles of ordinary people making work time their own
stephen wright: 19:27:17: Great!
Aharon: 19:27:20: ..or did u use re-produce..?
Aharon: 19:28:11: which is exactly where we go back to the cotton field with the blues and all that.. be it a metaphorical - litteraly metaphorical - field..
Randall Szott: 19:28:29: students doing homework, people doing crosswords, surfing the web, looking at restaurant menus, texting, chatting...all on "company time"
Aharon: 19:28:38: hi magda
atrowbri: 19:28:50: the recent SEC guy fired for looking @ porn...
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:28:51: Greg, can you add Magda to the audio chat?
stephen wright: 19:28:59: But those poeple are "killing time"
stephen wright: 19:29:08: At work is not about killing time.
Randall Szott: 19:29:09: no
atrowbri: 19:29:10: art is not killing time?
Randall Szott: 19:29:23: exactly adam
stephen wright: 19:29:31: well, only if it is self consciously about killing time
magdalenatc: 19:29:35: hello. great thank. i am in.
Randall Szott: 19:29:35: what makes art better than fantasy football?
Aharon: 19:29:40: no.. they keep trying to make sure time does not kill them]
atrowbri: 19:29:44: More than 24 employees and contractors at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission have been investigated for porn-surfing at work in the past two years, according to published reports.
atrowbri: 19:29:57: Are they not using work time to "produce desire"
atrowbri: 19:29:58
stephen wright: 19:30:46: That might be stretching the point if they just gazed at some skin-observing
Aharon: 19:30:57: and therefore its subsistance kind of practice.. an expression of subsistance, not subversion of subsistancy.. just a feel of..
stephen wright: 19:31:05: If they made porn, then YES
stephen wright: 19:31:18: I think we should be making more on-worksite porn
stephen wright: 19:32:14: Yes, that's probably true. They tend to be fairly one offish.
Randall Szott: 19:32:31: a mom typing up her Christmas family newsletter at work is just as interesting to me as some post-grad using video software to edit a project
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:32:35: I'm wondering if the sleeping student is not upper class, so will never need a dayjob to "au travail"...
Aharon: 19:32:40: i wonder about your position, bob.. are you a kind of a curator? making your curation via films..?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:33:01: stephen, maybe you can help translate too?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:23: who was that?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:27: is/was
atrowbri: 19:34:56: if the post-grad's video shows and becomes part of a gallery exhibition leading to a teaching job, you could argue the value is merely transfered. How many of these slack-art-workers are transfering excess work value into artworld value possibly leading to either credibility or better art-related positions?
stephen wright: 19:34:57: slackers tend to be -- though are not always -- from middle class society.
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:35:15: Anibal Lopez, that's the name of the truck driver
atrowbri: 19:35:27: trying to unmute
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:35:58: thanks Stef
BASEKAMP team: 19:36:19: street cred = use value?
stephen wright: 19:36:22: Excellent question!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:36:32: (couldn't remember it either, had to look it up)
Randall Szott: 19:37:28: can't we side step this question? or maybe reframe it...why talk about value? why not talk about meaning or maybe the conversion of value into meaning.
BASEKAMP team: 19:38:59: do value and meaning have to be mutually exclusive Randall or is this getting too semantic?
Randall Szott: 19:39:25: well economic value has no necessary relation to meaning
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:39:41: this debate came up earlier, and i wasn't sure how 'valuable' it is to be honest... whether or not 'value' can exist outside of capital
stephen wright: 19:40:12: Let's bear in mind that one of the important characteristics of At Work is that it really exists -- it has some 400 self-acknowledged members worldwide.
BASEKAMP team: 19:40:34: despite those who define themselves based on accumulated property or how "valuable" they are not that we should be focusing on this at all
BASEKAMP team: 19:41:27: or knowledge production (re: crosswords)
Randall Szott: 19:41:36: but passing time is how you would charaterize it....
Randall Szott: 19:41:52: because you don't find it meaninful apparently
Randall Szott: 19:42:00: or not meaningful in the same way art is
Randall Szott: 19:42:35: but some people find meaning in less "elevated" arenas
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:39: randall yes.. dominic earlier said that this approach would probably not be necessary at a job one finds fulfiling
BASEKAMP team: 19:42:45: Is Au Travail a kind of art therapy?
stephen wright: 19:42:45: I see your point, Randall, but the kind of self-understanding that goes with art doing changes everything for me.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:48: regardless of what it is
Randall Szott: 19:43:14: self-understanding
stephen wright: 19:43:26: as art
Randall Szott: 19:43:27: or navel gazing....sometimes it's hard to tell
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:46: as long as he was giving blow jobs!
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:57: oops did I just write that?
Aharon: 19:44:11: are you looking for meaning, randall?
Aharon: 19:44:18: lol@art q..
Randall Szott: 19:44:30: no i dont care at all what art is
stephen wright: 19:44:39: neither do I
Randall Szott: 19:44:49: i am interesed in human meaning making and creativity in whatever form it takes
stephen wright: 19:44:50: it is whatever it understands itself to be
Aharon: 19:45:00: is art a taboo term/word?
Randall Szott: 19:45:05: art is highly privileged in this regard
stephen wright: 19:45:17: uniquely so
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:23: art is what makes life more interesting than art
stephen wright: 19:45:27: yes
BASEKAMP team: 19:45:29: well...not caring about what art is is caring
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:29: filliou
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:44: not about form then, about concept/process/space of creation?
Aharon: 19:46:51: what doesnt qualify as at-work..?
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:47:40: by the way, it could have been santiago sierra and not lopez
Randall Szott: 19:47:53: "

not caring is caring - whooo boy
stephen wright: 19:47:54: well, if you work at an art gallery and just do what you're told, that doen't qualify
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:48:08: <ss type="giggle">chuckle)</ss>
Aharon: 19:48:40: y not? it mi8 be exactly what u've always dreamed of!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:48:54: sorry, i think it was santiago sierra.
stephen wright: 19:49:02: well if it's a dream job, so much the better
Aharon: 19:49:20: it mi8 be a dream activity
Aharon: 19:49:46: point is that from that pov you do indeed place a very large set of values..
BASEKAMP team: 19:50:02: whooo boy?
Randall Szott: 19:50:11: yes exactly - creative practice in *whatever* form
Randall Szott: 19:50:39: from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.
stephen wright: 19:50:50: I would say that At Work is more interested in "decreative practice" in whatever form
Randall Szott: 19:50:51: not just making videos, novels, etc.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:03: stef - thanks
stephen wright: 19:51:03: certainly not making videos necessarily
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:30: someone here is teaching a class on lock-picking
Aharon: 19:51:32: has anyone seen mikmaks..? (maybe wrong spelling.. your movie ref..)
Aharon: 19:53:11: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micmacs_
Randall Szott: 19:53:46: art as esperanto!
Randall Szott: 19:53:51: both equally useless
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:54:43: i've heard claims that critical theory was a kind of universal language - but I doubt that really
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:55:01: Dominique, do you think "at work" is a prevalent working class artist activity?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:13: buzzwords that help people to think they're talking the same language
Randall Szott: 19:55:38: did i miss a question?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:47: stephen is thinking
stephen wright: 19:55:49: didn't ask it yet -- sorry
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:55:49: (my kids are asleep so i can't say it out loud)
BASEKAMP team: 19:55:51: thanks for the music
Dominic Zlatanov: 19:55:58: prevalent working class activity?
Randall Szott: 19:56:07: oh ok im not objecting per se
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:15: i'm totally into it actually
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:56:27: yes, i mean, upper class artists wouldn't really care about this no?
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:43
Randall Szott: 19:56:53: just wondering why we seem hesitant to grant the activites i mentioned as being relevant
Randall Szott: 19:57:06: relevant is not the right word...
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:25: randall, - really? i might have missed the activities - can you repeat?
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:27: applicable?
Randall Szott: 19:57:35: but we seem intent on making art/activist purposes more important thna less "heroic" ones
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:43: Scott...from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:45: "not just making videos, novels, etc."?
stephen wright: 19:58:00: Not At Work -- the members activities are pretty unheroic
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:58:07: ah--- ok, i didn't get the impression anyone was hesitant that 's all -- ok
Randall Szott: 19:58:12: a form of heroism seems to be smuggled in somewhere
Randall Szott: 19:58:29: oh so sorry guys
Randall Szott: 19:58:40: my ride has arrived i have to run
stephen wright: 19:58:49: well, ripping off the man with the clock is slightly heroic
stephen wright: 19:59:02: yup
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:59:03: yes, we can all hear you
Randall Szott: 19:59:11: but crosswords rip off the man as much as art
Randall Szott: 19:59:14: to me
Randall Szott: 19:59:28: but i really have to go sorry
stephen wright: 19:59:29: well then it,s heroic
Dominic Zlatanov: 20:00:00: ciao Randall
Aharon: 20:00:28: thanks
BASEKAMP team: 20:01:11: yep
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:01:12: it's only 1 am here, we're cool.
magdalenatc: 20:01:34: i would like to, as i joined late and still trying to follow ... the silence of thougts (my silent thoughts in particular <ss type="smile"></ss>
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:02:10: he was "at travail"!
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:38: Eric that's fantastic
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:53: or.. i mean -- i like that you're doing this
stephen wright: 20:09:46: Great allegory!
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:10:04: Eric would you rather become a famous artist or a famous actor?
BASEKAMP team: 20:11:21: Thanks everyone!
magdalenatc: 20:11:32: thank you all.
stephen wright: 20:12:14: g900@hotmail.com">dg900@hotmail.com
magdalenatc: 20:12:15: that's very kind
magdalenatc: 20:12:16: thanks
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:12:41: Thank you, that was fab.
Aharon: 20:12:42: d900@ where??
Aharon: 20:12:48: o
tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:12:49: hotmail.com
Dominic Zlatanov: 20:12:54: g900@hotmail.com">dg900@hotmail.com
Aharon: 20:12:54: ta stephen
stephen wright: 20:13:06: See / hear you next week!
stephen wright: 20:13:12: night night
cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:13:28: nighty night!